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|ponder2||Posted - 09 November 2001 1:53
Does a person always havta listen to their parents besides for when they tell them to do something against the torah or a girl when she gets married shes got to listen to her husband first? Can't a child (I mean a grown up one) have a opinion of his own according to halacha? If so why? What is the limit? How much do you have to tollerate from your parents?
|MODERATOR||Posted - 09 November 2001 2:50
You only have to listen to your parents if they tell you to do something that has to do with them. Like bring your father his slpiiers or dont be so noisy around them. but something that does not pertain to them, like what to be when you grow up, you do not have to listen.
However, if in such a case, your parents will indirectly be hurt, there are those who say you have to listen. It's a machlokes. An example of such a case is where they say dont dress in a way that will cause them embarrasment from the neighbors.
Even where oyu dont have to listen to them, you should try not to directly throw your disobedience in their face by saying "I will not listen." Better just dont do whatever it is, without contradicting them.
Or if your parents want you to do something stupid that will embarrass you publicly, you dont have to do it.
Married women are still obligated in Kibuv Av V'Aim, but they do not have to take the time to constantly do things for their parents, unless their husband allows it, since they are obligated to their husbands.
|ponder2||Posted - 28 February 2002 0:52
How about if what they tell you to do will really effect you emotionally- but does pertain to them? Do you got to listen?
|peace!||Posted - 17 October 2002 12:35
is it possible u further explain wat u mean by, "since they are obligated to their husbands." wat do u mean OBLIGED?!? i'm very big on feminism and that term just doesnt go with me. i feel a marriage shud have 50/50 in everything. meaning one doesnt overpower the other. the word OBLIGED makes it sound as if the wife is some sort of slave or s/t.
thnx 4 everything!
|MODERATOR||Posted - 21 October 2002 17:20
Feminism doesnt square with Torah. WHiel a woman is not a slave, and regarding certina things there is an understanding that rights are 50/50 (such as the phrase in the Tenoim "vyishletu bnichseihon shava b'shava" - use of their property will be 50/50) nevertheless a marriage is a team and while everyone on a team is needed and nobody is a slave, there is one captain. The husband is clearly the captain of the family and the wife assistant captain (See Shulchan Aruch EH 69:8). Details of division of duties reposnsibilities and authority is a seperate matter. But its neither 50-50 nor slavery. You gotta widen your options a little.
|Admonit||Posted - 02 December 2002 5:59
|FlippedOutFish||Posted - 23 September 2007 14:31
IF youre parents tell you to eat something or go to sleep( when you are learning or not) do u have to listen to them?
Does Physcological benefit considered "Hanaah" -benefit under halachic ramifications ? ie) going outside with a certain jacket, eating something they made, causing them anger indirectly or by being passive ?
|MODERATOR||Posted - 23 September 2007 14:48
Unless you have a reason not to, you should listen. If they ask you to eat, unless you are unable to eat any kmore, or there's a halachic problem with the food, you should eat. If they tell you to go to sleep, and you are learning, and there is no threat to your health by staying up, it's better to try to discuss this with them. You definitely should not ignore them. They are trying to help.
|Yoseph||Posted - 08 June 2010 21:27
You wrote: " The husband is clearly the captain of the family and the wife assistant captain (See Shulchan Aruch EH 69:8)."
Was EH 69:8 perhaps a typo? I didn't find that number SA. If it is another mekor, can you cite which and also type a quick quote from the SA that it essentially says the husband is captain and wife asst. capt.
|Yoseph||Posted - 15 June 2010 15:12
R' Mod - Just wondering if you had a chance to lookup what I asked... thx
|MODERATOR||Posted - 16 June 2010 15:02
69:7, right at the end
|Matisyohu28||Posted - 27 June 2010 22:02
Rav Avigdor Miller spends a long time debunking feminism in 'rejoice o youth' - to the poster who said she is 'big' on feminism, should check it out - also, reb moshe feinstein in igros moshe rules explicitly that feminism is 100% apikorsus.
The fact that women have different mitzvos than men show you their differences, as this, says the mesilas yeshorim, is the purpose of life)fulfilling mitzvos). Chava, when created, was called an 'eizer kenegdo' a helpmate for adam - as in, a side-kick.
The director of a movie is never seen, yet their role in the making of it is completely necessary - so too, the need for a lady to be tznius means she cannot be dominatiing in a relationship, as chazal say that gayvah for a lady is far worse than for a man - the fact that the gemora says that it was a tragedy that the generation of devorah was on such a level where they needed a woman to lead them, shows you the attitude we are supposed to have about feminism.
Furthermore, the chid"a writes that the relationship betweena husband and wife is like the moon and the sun - they are different sizes; this is the way they are supposed to function, each within their own g-d given roles.
The Gemara says that a lady is patur from time-related mitzvos(tefillin, tzitzis, etc..) because she is supposed to be busy with her children - we see this is her purpose; no less great than a man, but far, far different and not equal. Women have nothing to do with torah study in the way men do(in-depth probing analysis and learning for the sake of learning), whereas women are only supposed to learn practical laws.
Recently, the gedolim in america came out saying that the appointing of a so-called orthodox 'rabbi' who was a woman to any post whatsoever, was 'not within orthodoxy'.
The response by these feminists was that these gedolim, men steeped in learning their entire lives whom the entire torah community turn to as leaders, were being 'political', even the modern orthodox RCA was against this move, and the same 'observant' and so-called 'orthodox' people behind this belong to a shul named after the founder of the conservative movement.
We dont dictate how we serve hashem - there is no room in torah for self-centered 'i do what i want' nonsense, and we are obligated - kohein, levi, yisroel, women, ger, mamzer, whatever status a person has is given to him by hashem and he is supposed to serve hashem in that way - which the sfas emes explains is part of being satisfies with your portion(aizehu ashir? hashomaech bechelko), this applies to spirituality too, says the sfas emes.
And so, we are all to be thrilled at the opportunity to serve hashem according to the means he has given us each according to the kind of neshama He has given us.
'kol maasecha yehehu leshem shomayim' all your actions must be for the sake of hashem - on hashem's terms. This is true bitul)self-nullification), which the nesivos shalom describes as the biggest iron partition separating a person between him and hashem - the 'anochius' the ego, the self, the "I am somebody" independent of ratzon hashem. This absolute gayvah brings to all evils in the world and destroys a person's essence, says the nesivos shalom.
It is no wonder that the same feminist-adherents within the observant community are as lax as can be when it comes to things they are actually obligated to do, such as tznius. The chutzpah of a woman demanding to be given the 'right' to wear tefillin and such, while walking around in attire that is makshil others and makes her worse than a rotzeach(murderer) "gadol hamachtio yoser min hahorgo", is mind-bending.
There is and ample amount of matters for women to work on within their own sphere, without selfishly doing what they want.
In the merit of those women who keep their purpose hashem gave them, the gemora tells us, tyhe jews were redeemed from mitzrayim - the yatzer hora wants, simply, to distract a person spiritually, make him/her involved in things that are not obligations, things that righteous women in history never did before, that suddenly we feel we deserve a right to do(mussar seofrim say that the feeling of being entitled to anything is a source of tremendous destruction - stemming from arrogance) - the very idea of subscribing to ideologies from anti-torah sources and from secular writers should be enough to discourage any g-d fearing jew away from this madness.
Mussar teaches you how to live. But learning bava kama is living! - Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L
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