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London_Gal Posted - 16 January 2004 9:18
Im not a teen, but someone told me about this website a few days ago and Ive found it to be a pretty amazing place - so well done:) I often feel I have questions but I honestly wouldn't know who to ask, is there an adult site like this?
My question is how bad does one have to be to go to gehenom? Is it only people who we see as really bad, or people like for example, a normal Beis Yaakov girl whose generally ok but still does bad things here and there - would they go to gehenom? How can we judge whats really bad?
Also is there anything specific that if one does wrong in olam hazeh, they'll go to gehenom for? Or can every sin be forgiven for if u do sincere teshuva?
MODERATOR Posted - 16 January 2004 9:39
The idea that someone goes either to heaven or hell exsclusively is a Christian idea. The truth is that all of us (with few excetions, as explained below) go to gehinnom for whatver sins we do, in order to cleanse us of those sins, after which we go to gan eden to enjoy the reward for our good deeds.

There are those who do not get gan eden - ain lahem chelek l'olam habah. A whole list of those - 22 of them in fact - are posted elsewhere on the site.

dina17 Posted - 21 January 2004 15:34
where r they posted?
dina17
na Posted - 19 July 2004 13:14
I have been looking for that list myself, but to no avail. I would appreicate if someone would guide me to that list
green Posted - 21 July 2004 8:36
i don't know where they are on the site, but they are in the rambam hilchos teshuva-perek beis or gimmel. i will bli neder try and post them later.
taon Posted - 26 July 2005 11:09
Shaarei Teshuva discusses the sins that keep one from having a portion in Olam Habah in detail, more then i've seen elsewhere.it also discusses many othe sins.

`taon

nyboi Posted - 12 October 2007 14:10
Anyupdates???? WHAT ARE THese 22 AVAIROt
If you do one of these 22 things you stay in hell or after you cleanse you float around like a dibbuk.
Also can you do tshuva for these things.

Also are we supposed to try and compare hell to something we can understand and use it as a deterent or is that like serving god only to get reward.

Lastly. If one does something and says I will repent is it true that you can't do tshuva for that action.

green Posted - 12 October 2007 16:21
It becomes much more difficult to do teshuva for that aveira.
What the person did was essentially use teshuva in order to sin-so why should he be able to benefit from teshuva afterwards?
It's still possible, though-but it's very very difficult to do proper teshuva.
taon Posted - 13 October 2007 21:41
ny-
there is a gehenniom, of couse, but most descriptions are, as you said, mashalim. gehenniom, like gan eden, isnt physical, it's for the neshamah.

as for the aveiros which cause one to have no portion in olam habah (unless he does teshuvah, which is especially hard for such big things), i cAant find the full list here and I dont have an english Mishnah Torah, but in Shaarei teshuvah lists these. Note: I may have some wrong. There's much more information to them than included here, and always remeber tinok shenishbos and those who do full Teshuvah are not meant in this.
1 an apikores (what qualifies is defined elsewhere)
2 someone who speaks lies against the Torah, which means claiming certain things are or arent in the Torah when the truth is the opposite and they know it, someone who belittles the Torah and the importance of learning it, thinking it worthless, and someone who denies a Torah concept, claiming it's made up or whatever.
3 someone who doesnt observe Chol Hamoed according to its halachos, treating it like any other day. this may also nclude people who dont make it somewhat a special day what by what they wear or eat.
4 someone who mocks a Talmid Chacham
5 this is really included in 4, someone who honors and flatters reshaim.
6 hating Hashem. I dont fully understand what this means, it presumably includes enemies of Bnei Yisroel, and someone who doesnt do mitzvos/discourages others from doing mitzvos. Someone who, due to troubles, chas vesholom says they hate Hashem, probably are not icluded. While it does need teshuvah, it is mostly an expression of troubles. this is discussed somehwere in the suffering forum, I believe
7 causing the multitudes to sin
8 I dont understand this, someone who makes people feaer him/her diring life.
9 someone who departs from the communitie's way. I think this means someone who throws away Dirobbanons or minhagei Yisroel.
10 someone who doesn't have Yiras Shemaim, does mitzvos only due to rote without caring at all, who does an aveirah without worrying, thinking they could do teshuvah later. Such a person will of course do aveiros, no mitzvos becuase they dont consider them anything more than things which happen to be done during the course of the day, and never do teshuvah.
these next ones appear to be a seperate category, but i'm including them as well. it seems that these are people who will have a very hard time doing theshuvah, becuase they either dont realize they need to, or becuase it's so ingrained in them. that also applies to the above, come to think of it.
11 those who constantly scoff, this has several subcategories, but too much to get into
12 contant deceivers, also several sub-categories
13 several types of flatteres of reshaim, plus
a someone whose words are considered very trustworthy, and uses this to elevate uunworthy people, like saying their brother is very learned when he isnt (and the speaker knows this), thereby causing people to trust untrsutable people, accept psakim from ignoramuses, etc.
b someone who remains in the company of bad people, particularly those who say bad things (any of the above, really, plus loshon horah), and doesn'ttry to stop them if possible, disagree with them openly, or do anything to show they disapprove. This is considered flattering reshaim, becuase they are acting as if they agree with these things
14 habitual speakers of loshon horah, with several sub-categories
I'm sure I got some things here mixed up, or skipped something, so if anyone has a better list please post it. I'm pretty sure doing it bishogeg, accidentally, isnt included, aty least not fully, and there is always teshuvah.

taon

questions? go here:

http://www.frumteens.com/forum.php?forum_id=65

ready?613 Posted - 14 October 2007 10:10
i've learned that everyone goes to gehenom before entering olam haba in order to cleans them of all aveiros-whether they spend a year (which i've learned is the max for anyone) or passed by the door (there's some mashal about this-anyone know?) everyone goes. i'm not sure what the source is for this, but i can ask.
green Posted - 14 October 2007 10:10
This is what the shaarei teshuva lists:
1)rechilus
2)lashon hara
3)baal hacheima-a hot tempered person
4)a ba'al machshava ra'ah (I don't know exactly what this means.)
5)One who becomes friends with a rasha
6)One who regularly eats a meal that is not satisfying. (A problem with making a bracha).
7)Someone who looks at arayos
8)One who shares profits with a thief
9)One who says "I will sin and do teshuva"
10)One who glorifies himself through the shame of his friend
11)One who separates himself from the tzibbur.
12)One who degrades his friends or rabbis
13)One who curses the "rabbim"
14)One who keeps the klal from doing a mitzva.
15)One who turns his friend from a good derech to a bad one.
16)One who uses the collateral of a poor person.
17)One who takes a bribe to influence a judgement.
18)Someone who finds a lost object and doesn't return it.
19)Someone who sees his child involved in bad and doesn't protest.
20)One who eats things robbed from the poor, orphans, or widows.
21)One who argues with words of chachamim.
22)One who suspects the innocent
23)One who hates rebuke
24)One who makes fun of the mitzvos.
And these are not things that keep a person from olam haba, they are things that keep a person from being able to do teshuva
nyboi Posted - 14 October 2007 16:06
Taon,

That's pretty crazy for not keeping chol hamoed???


How is doing tshuva on those averot different?

taon Posted - 14 October 2007 17:04
1 Chol Hamoed is a moed. ignoring it is like ignoring Yomim Tovim. There may be more to it

2 Teshuvah is harder becuase these are much more serious and much more ingrained, and people who do these things either dont think it's necessary to do tshuvash, or dont think they can. It's normal teshuvah, but with extra precautionary measures. some of them, tzaaros may be necessary to be fully cleansed.

taon

questions? go here:

http://www.frumteens.com/forum.php?forum_id=65

nyboi Posted - 15 October 2007 12:11
So why isn't breaking actual yomtov one of them.
taon Posted - 15 October 2007 16:53
Like I said, there's more to it i don't know. And violating Yom Tov on purpose would be disregarding a part of the Torah.

taon

questions? go here:

http://www.frumteens.com/forum.php?forum_id=65

nyboi Posted - 16 October 2007 17:26
Taon_

Based on what you said @ 17:04 it sound like these averot aren't worse then other ones just that people who do these most prob aren't interested in tshuva???!

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