Anything about JUDAISM
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who me?! Posted - 03 December 2003 15:42
in this weeks parsha it says that yaakov kissed rachel- wat does this mean? they werent married.
also what does the torah mean when it says that he loved rachel, besides for the fact that he said he loves her beforee he even married her.????????

hakol biyidai shamayim chutz miyiras shamayim

MODERATOR Posted - 03 December 2003 15:46
Re the kiss: See the ncommentary of ibn Kaspi, that it wasnt really a kiss, and it was nothing assur at all. It just means some way of showing that he liked her.

And "ahava" in Hebrew doesnt literally mean "love". Any time you like somethign you can say you "ohev es zeh" - there is no other word for "like". Just as "sinah" doesnt mean "hate" but rather disapproval. As in lo sisnah es achichah bilvavechah, which includes anything you might have against someone - it doesnt mean "hate" (see Ramban).

In any case, we cannot compare ourselves to the avos. They had ruach hakodesh and nevuah and chachmah and they were able to see into a person in ways that we cannot imagine. Even if it would have meant that Yaakov "loved" Rachel in that sense, it doesnt mean we can do that so easily.

dina17 Posted - 19 December 2003 1:44
who me?!- u think its like in the movies, girl uv been watchinh too much of those junk........ slow motions, dim light, soft music....right?! well i heard a shiur that some body told me. that somebody is a teacher in a semenry in israel well this is what she told me:
she came home and looked at the parsha and she didnt know how she will teach the girls that one of the avots kissed a girl. all of the girls there will thing oh if he did it why cant i there is nothing bad with it.... well so she sat down and open all the mepharshim to see what they say about it and she didnt find so she opened onther book and onther one and she didnt find the answer ok so what she is gunna do know...? what will she say to her students...? ok and then her husbend came and she told it to him and her husbend said that if the mefarshim didnt make en issu out of it so its not an issu..... so why r u making a big deal out of it???!!!
we see in the parsha that yakov kissed rachel cuz when he saw her he know that she will be his bashert so thats why he kissed her!!!! and remember that at that time rachel was 3 years old so it cant be those love kisss. yakov was kissing her and creing at the same time cus he knew that they wonnt be buried together so its not an issu so dont make an issu out of it!!!!! u r just mixing between our days and then and thats a big mistake!!!
HZ Posted - 20 December 2003 0:03
Reb Avigdor Miller once answered that it was a kiss to a relative. If it were a different type of kiss, he would't have cried.
chashek Posted - 21 December 2004 14:29
there is an obscure sefer by rabbi chiam paltiel who was a talmid of the maharam mirothenberg who asks a similar question..
How does one kiss a woman whom he has never met in his life?
his answer ,,,the word vayishak ..does not mean kissed it means he longed for her as in vel eisheh teshukucech in bereshis
gottagrow Posted - 23 March 2007 18:33
On the subject of Yaakov and Rachel: they suspected that Laban would make the switch, so they came up with the password. Rachel, out of compassion for Leah told her the password so she wouldn't be humiliated, etc. But how could Rachel do this to Yaakov, who will end up believing he is marrying HER? How should we understand this? Is it that Rachel knew through prophecy that she would marry Yaakov anyway? Even then, shouldn't she have told him all this? I know I must be missing something, so forgive me if this is too basic, but it kinda seems that Rachel did a favor for her sister at the expense of her future husband.
Elchonon Posted - 26 March 2007 3:13
Often it is not what is done in the end, but the means that it is done with that counts most. Moshe didn't want to slight Aharons honor and was willing Give up the job of takeing the Jews out of Egypt for Ahraons sake. Why? Didn't Moseh realize that taking the Jews out of Egypt is more important than Aharons honor?
I hear an answer from Rav Shmuel Miller Shlit"a. If Moshe had slighted Aharon, even if the Jews had gone out of Egypt- there would have been a pgam ( something wrong) in the Yetziah. The yetziah?- Hashem would take care of that. But a Jew has a responsibilty to do things without making pigams. A Jew must do things the right way without any calculations.
Perahps it is so to with Rachel. Rachel knew that if she married Yaackov now it would be at Leahs expense. A Jew cannot do that. Hashem woul dtake care of their marriage. Rachel, however, could not cause herself to get married with a pgam in her marriage.
rimon Posted - 23 November 2007 14:18
how do you know that you are not interpreting yaakov's kiss according to your own ideology? ( some how the kiss doesn't mean a kiss but, a three year old is a three year old like today)we don't know how to make sense of it b/c of what we are taught, so there MUST be some ultra frum explanation. If that's what the torah says why don't we take it at face value?
taon Posted - 23 November 2007 15:43
becuase of context. It wouldn't make sense for Yaakov to just go up to Rachel and kiss her. Even low down types of people would never do that! How could we possibly say Yaakov Avinu would? And if he did, why isn't a word spoken against it? Hashem would have punished him severley. Why did he cry? Why was Yosef able to resist aishes potifar through the remebering of his father is his father and teacher would do such a thing? Why was he then willing to work 14 years before marrying her, marrying someone slese due to lavan's trickery in the interim? Also, Midrashim are not just for nicer explanations. They are mesorah and there are proofs from the pesukim, which serve as reminders but aren't needed becuase as said, it's mesorah. Do a search for midrash or chazal for the whole proccess.


questions? go here:

green Posted - 25 November 2007 0:03
Umm...wasn't rivka 3?(I might be missing something tho).
taon Posted - 25 November 2007 2:54
Huh? Did you misread Rachel as Rivkah (happens all the time, i'd know) or are you reffering to a different post? Her age isn't so poshut though, there is a machlokes.


questions? go here:

green Posted - 25 November 2007 14:34
Parshas Toldos Rashi 25:20- Rashi brings the medrash that calculates rivka's age at 3 when she was brought to yitzchak. Maybe there's a similar opinion about rachel, I just never heard of it.

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