Anything about JUDAISM
Anything about JUDAISM
profile | register | search

This is an archived site, for new discussion please see
Forums | | Post Reply Send Topic To a Friend
Author Topic
yaavetz Posted - 23 November 2008 21:55
This is the way I understand bechira and yedias hashem: A person has free will to choose whatever he decides to do. Hashem, who knows the future, knows what he will choose.
I believe this was discussed already elsewhere.
My problem is, though, how all this fits with nevuah. Many times Hashem sent neviim to get people to do teshuva. Let’s take, for example, the nevuah of Yonah to Ninveh. Hashem told Yonah to tell Ninveh that in 40 days they will be destroyed. Ninveh did teshuva and was not destroyed. Obviously, Hashem had yediah that Ninveh would do teshuva and not be destroyed. But if so, the nevuah he told Yonah was false; Ninveh was not destroyed in 40 days.
Another example: Yermiah tells the people that they will eventually be taken into exile to Bavel, and their city destroyed. Therefore they should do teshuva. Once again, the yedias Hashem was obviously that they would not do teshuva and go into golus. Because that is indeed what happened. But why tell them that they should do teshuva through the nevuah. Didn’t Hashem already know that they wouldn’t end up doing teshuva? And if they would do teshuva, then how could Hashem have told Yirmiah that they would go into golus Bavel?
The only conclusion I can draw is that nevuahs are only the possible outcomes. If someone decides to change his ways, he can render a nevuah untrue. (I actually did see somewhere- I think it was a nevuah in Yermiah, but I don’t remember exactly- that a nevuah never came true because of a mitzvah that someone- I think it was Tzidkiyahu- did.) But if you say this, the laws of navi sheker don’t make any sense. What if a navi says that this person will be punished and he does teshuva? Do we kill the navi? Who’s to say he wasn’t lying?
Therefore, I have no conclusion to draw. We’re stuck either way.
MODERATOR Posted - 24 November 2008 0:12
A nevuah of something bad is not used to determine if someone is a navi sheker. Hashem does not, however, repeal a bracha, so if someone prophecises something good will happen, and it doesn't, it shows he is a navi sheker.
yaavetz Posted - 02 December 2008 23:20
Maybe, but it's still very strange.
A nevuah of good will always come true, no matter how much the person(s) no longer deserve(s) it?
A navi sheker can says false nevuos all his life, and as long as they are all bad news, we will do nothing to him, even if none of them come true?
leavingandlooking Posted - 07 December 2008 22:00
1 If Hashem went by full justice, no one would deserve anything good. it's all mercy. So, yeah. But remember, Hashem knows the future. Hashem knows what this person or people will deserve.

2 All he can be "prophesying", then, would be bad things happening to us. No advice, no comfort, no bad things happening against our enemies, just talking about bad decrees. Such a person wouldn't even be considered as to whether he is a navi or not, he'd be considered crazy. Just some person who says nothing but that bad things will happen.
Why would a person who wants to be a navi sheker do this anyway? Okay, I don't get why someone would want to be a navi sheker in the first place, but every navi sheker I can think of was basically a yes-man. They said strictly good things for whatever ruler they were "prophecysing" for. So i don't think it would happen except with a person who needs mental help, and such a person would not fall into inquiry to begin with, or be believed.

justlevine Posted - 28 January 2009 17:18
You see a question; i see the beauty of how teshuva works.

Hashem we know, judges people only on their present, not their future sins. Applying that idea to this, when HE judges someone to something it is on the level that they currently are. However, if they change their level, then the judgement no longer applies.

Because the people of Ninvey did teshuva, the conditions of the nevuah no longer applied to them, because it was talking about if they were on a different/lower level.

Click Here To Close Thread, Administrators & Moderators Only.

Show All Forums | Post Reply