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|Me Myself and I||Posted - 19 November 2008 21:32
So on Rosh HAshana & Yom Kippur Hashem ddecides waht will happen to us during the year, so how do we have bechirah. I know thta we decide and He just knows. But does this mean thta sometimes Hashem wants us to sin, b/c everything that happens is 4 the good...
|MODERATOR||Posted - 20 November 2008 0:51
Hashem decides what will happen, but not everything about how it comes about. If chas vesholom tzaaros are decreed on a community, it's up to us how. Will it be through fighting? Or will it be something else that won't stay around, and everyone helps each other so that in the end the tzaaros arent what they could have been and things get much better. The same with good things. They can happen through something bad...but that's your choice, Hashem can have them come about another way.
|josh1||Posted - 23 November 2008 21:55
Hashem doesnt want us to sin. He knows that we will but He doesnt like it. I had a similar question: If G-D knows what will happen then how is it that we have free choice? Where is our bechira? I asked a Rabbi once and he told me that we do have bechira to choose whatever we want to do. Hashem doesnt decide what we will do, but He does know what the future holds and what we will end up doing. Hope that helps
|Mikewind Dale||Posted - 02 December 2008 23:20
Hazal say "Hakol bidei shamayim hutz m'yirat shamayim" - Rambam in Shemonah Perakim explains that anything shayach to a mitzvah or averah is thus outside of G-d's hands.
Further on there, he explains that we cannot understand how G-d's knowledge of the future does not preclude free will; Rambam explains that just as we cannot understand G-d's essence or being, we cannot understand His knowledge, since all of it is part and parcel of the same ineffable and incomprehensible "Other". If so, if we cannot understand His knowledge, then we don't even have the grounds to ask the question of how His knowledge and our free will do not contradict.
Alternatively, in Pirkei Avot, Sforno explains that G-d sees all of history as one panoramic view, like a movie reel displayed all at once. But just because He can see it all at once does not mean He causes it; if one saw the ending of a movie, did one cause the movie to end that way? Of course not! (Sforno adds a third argument: ontologically ( = the nature of a thing, especially as regards its source of existence and the source of its nature), the future's existence is dependent on His existence no less than the present. If, so then G-d's knowing Himself perforce dictates that He knows the future, since the future is in some way a part of Himself. This is similar to Rambam's argument.)
|trying2shteig||Posted - 11 January 2009 19:09
actually both josh's and the moderator's comments seem to be difficult, as they imply that Hashem is limited and doesn't Know what people will do... kind of sounds like the Ralbag's explanation of bechira which isn't what we follow....
|josh1||Posted - 15 January 2009 20:20
Huh? I said Hashem does know what we will do.
|taon||Posted - 15 January 2009 20:20
How is that implied? I don't see it.
questions? go here:
|fire88||Posted - 22 January 2009 20:45
i heard that Hashem makes the gezeiros, but it's up to us how they'll be portioned out.
for example, if it's decreed on a community that there'll be very little rain, Hashem doesn't change the gezeira, but if the community did teshuva, then Hashem will make the rain fall in exactly the places they need to be the most productive to grow the crops.
or vice versa, if the community was deserving by r'h/y'k time that they shud be zoche to a lot of rain, Hashem will make the rain fall in the places and at the times wen it'll ruin the crops if they're no longer zoche by that time.
|josh1||Posted - 22 January 2009 20:45
Going to state what I said before. Although we have free choice "bechira", Hashem knows the future, and therefore can see what we will do. You have the power to go whatever way you want, Hashem just happens to know what you will do.
|xxchannaxx||Posted - 08 February 2009 18:52
i love this topic, im always talking about it with my chavrusa, anyway so the other day she came up with a very good metaphor for bechirah,
A mother offers her child a chocolate lollypop, and a carrot. now she knows that the child will choose the lollypop, but she still offers him the carrot to give him choice. Hashem in a way offers us good and bad (im not saying a carrot is bad its just an example!!) the chance for us to sin, but he knows we will take the 'lollypop'!
i thought his was an amazing thought, (from my amazing chavrusa of course!) and i think this might help u with your question. i hope this helps with understanding Bechirah a bit more!
|taon||Posted - 17 February 2009 22:35
Something similar was said in anther thread, but it doesn't work becuase it means our bechira is really just our personalities and not free will. Exact quote:
MODERATOR Posted - 17 June 2004 18:50 That doesnt work. Because if our choices are locked in because of our personalities, that negates bechirah. If on the other hand we can choose to do something different than "they type of person we are", or, if you prefer to say we can choose to be whatever type of person we want, then Hashem would not be able to tell what we would choose based on the type of person we currently are.
questions? go here:
|fire88||Posted - 23 February 2009 21:59
i don't really understand that tho, because that implies that bechirah is clear-cut, when it's really not. if it was so obvious to the kid that it was the choice between something not-so-tasty vs. somehting tasty, then it wouldn't be bechirah because it wouldn't even be a choice! that's like saying: "here's a mitzvah, if you do it, you'll get instant happiness for the rest of your life. if you don't, you'll be miserable and depressed for the rest of your life." it doesn't take a genius to make the right "decision." i don't even understand why we have to "limit" Hashem (so to speak) by making the decisions be so clear-cut. Hashem knows what we'll decide simply because time doesn't "exist" in Shomayim--everything, past present and future, happens simultaneously. but we can't understand that, because we're time-bound.
|Matisyohu28||Posted - 01 March 2009 21:17
fire - it's not so simple. choosing includes anyting an everything involved in our ruchnius that you are given an opportunity to improve or harm. It is not just mitzvos -nit includes the gamut of how i react to things, how I think(lo sasuru, for one), talk, feel(like the mitzvah of lo sachmod), walk, look at the world, and so on.
Mussar teaches you how to live. But learning bava kama is living! - Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L
|stamfordhillie||Posted - 04 January 2010 23:25
ok, i'm abit confused...i understand that i've free will in what i do, but even tho i've the physical ability 2 do what i want, emotionally i don't- 4 e.g signing a contract 4 a job legally forces u 2 go 2 work altho physically u have the choice not 2.
so this is what i'm confused about- i, with no rememberance of this event, signed a contract to keep the torah, and therefore i'm emotionally bound 2 do so.
SO WHERE IS MY BECHIRA?
yes, i've the physical ability 2 do what i want but rilly i HAVE 2 keep torah
|josh1||Posted - 11 January 2010 1:04
stamfordhillie, you're question is a little different than the original.
do you believe that the torah is false or that its true?
|taon||Posted - 04 February 2010 1:13
Not anymore than you have to eat, or be happy.
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