Anything about JUDAISM
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MODERATOR Posted - 09 January 2001 2:35

Case #4: Liquid Food in a Kli Sheni

When you remove food from the utensil it was cooking in over
the fire and place it in or on something else, according to
Halacha (Shabbos 40b, and Tosfos ad loc.) it looses some of its heat.

Exactly how this loss of heat effects the item's ability to
release and absorb Belios, if at all, is a matter of controversy
among the Poskim (See Tur, Shulchan Aruch, and Nosei Keylim Y.D. 105, Pri
Chadash 68, Chochmas Adam 59:6 with footnote ad loc, Chavas Daas
(Chidushim) 91:8, Darchei Teshuva 105:2.) In actual Halachic practice, we assume that food in a Kli Sheni is hot enough to transfer Belios only to the
outer layer of food or other utensils it comes in contact with (Y.D. 105:2, R.Akiva Eiger (ad loc), requiring Netilah K'Dei Kleipah (this is true even if the liquid in the Kli Sheni is actually hotter than 1100F). However, in
case where food or a utensil will have to be thrown away - such
as where the "shell" of the liquid is not Botul, or in the case
of a utensil that cannot be made kosher again - a Rav should be
consulted, as most Poskim are lenient in a case involving a
permanent loss (B'Deved).

An exception to the rule of Kli Sheni is where the liquid is
so hot it can scald a person's hand. This is called "Yad Nichves
Bo." In such a case, even in a Kli Sheni, the liquid retains its
ability to completely absorb and release Belios, as if it were in
a Kli Rishon (Taz 105)

Example: A lump of cheddar cheese accidentally fell into
a bowl of chicken soup. Being that the soup was not cooked
in the bowl, the status of the cheese depends on the
temperature of the soup at the time of immersion. If the
soup was hot enough to scald a hand upon contact, the cheese
is Treif. If the soup was hotter than 110¼0F but not quite
hot enough to burn someone, then the outer layer of the
cheese must be sliced off and discarded, but the rest may be

The soup, too, would officially need Netilah K'Dei
Klipah. Consequently, if there was enough soup in the bowl
so that the outer shell comprises less than 1.66% of the
total content, the soup may be eaten. If the outer shell
comprises more than 1.66% of all the soup, a Rav should be

If the heat of a liquid in a Kli Sheni is less than 110o F,
it is unable to absorb or transfer Belios, and is treated as cold

frumgurl100 Posted - 11 June 2003 5:46
can a spoon be considered a kli?
if yes, then when you are transfering food from its original pot, by using a spoon, many times food drips down the sides, and does not exsactly get onto the kli. is this a problem?
MODERATOR Posted - 11 June 2003 5:53
Whether a spoon that was dipped in a pot and emerges with food in it is a kli sheni is a machlokes. The reason we would say it is not a kli sheni is because when the food entered the spoon (i.e. when the spoon was submereged in the pot) it was not yet removed from th kli rishon (the pot).

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