Anything about JUDAISM
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israel-phile gal Posted - 19 February 2003 23:18
where? how? why? where did G-d come from? how? why?? i know these questions cant b answered- but it's so weird..like how did it start?
i heard that there used 2 b other worlds b4 this 1, & 1 of them was when the dinosaurs existed..so do we have ne idea how it worked then? like how it ran? it still seems so foreign 2 me..

also, it says in the last paragraph in bentching (i'm not sure if this goes under this forum but i'm gonna ask e/t at once) that we never see a single person hungry- etc. etc. ( vidorshey Hashem lo yachsiru..naar hayiti vigam zakanti vi lo ra'iti tzadik nezav..)but that's not true- we c it all the time..so how do we explain it then?

also, we always say that G-d does only good, & that He is a baal rachamim..how do i explain that 2 friends who seriously went & cont. 2 go thru hell. they basically grew up being the parents in the house, having problems w/ their parents, having a sick child in the family, depression problems..a lot of them have completely turned away- multiple piercings, no longer shomer shabbat, wearing the tightest pants u'll find, getting kicked out of skewls 4 making out w/ guys...how do u tell tehm it's all 4 the best?? that's the last thing they'll want 2 hear. when i tell them- ur alive, u ahve this & this..when i pt out wht they have instead of what they lack, they tell me- so i should b happy that i'm alive?! i wish i were dead! they dont & wont think of life as a gift, when they feel they're going thru hell. they're always saying 2 me- whenever we get in2 these discussions that they know tehre is a G-d, & hakadosh baruch Hu is the G-d, but they feel He hates them, & u can try as much as u like saying if He hated u He wouldnt've created u, but they'll keep on reiterating that they think G-d created them 2 suffer..& we just keep going in circles..another friend believes that (she got this from her "proofs" in teh torah, & i sorta can understand where she's coming from) the torah takes a misogynistic pt of view. that men r gr8 & women r belittled. women r n/t. i just dont know what 2 say ne more...moderator, ne suggestions!?!

MODERATOR Posted - 12 May 2003 0:08
<<where? how? why? where did G-d come from? how? why?? i know these questions cant b answered- but it's so weird..like how did it start?>>

G-d didnt come from anywhere. Its simple math: everything has to have a reason why its here -- and the reason has to have a reason. But that leaves us with a problem, because this historical string of reasons had to start somewhere -- which means, the first "reason", or "first cause" had to have no reason at all.

Thats G-d.

And since He has no "reason" or "cause" that means He has no attributes, characteristics or definition (because if he would, then that would be the "cause" of Him). Its not easy to imagine - almost impossible - but logically, thats how it has to be.

<<i heard that there used 2 b other worlds b4 this 1, & 1 of them was when the dinosaurs existed..so do we have ne idea how it worked then? like how it ran? it still seems so foreign 2 me..>>

I have no idea what this means. There could have been other worlds, but they did nto leave any debris on this earth (we're a whoel different world). The dinosours were simply animlas who became extinct, like the duck billed platypus...

<<also, it says in the last paragraph in bentching (i'm not sure if this goes under this forum but i'm gonna ask e/t at once) that we never see a single person hungry- etc. etc. ( vidorshey Hashem lo yachsiru..naar hayiti vigam zakanti vi lo ra'iti tzadik nezav..)but that's not true- we c it all the time..so how do we explain it then?>>

Lechem means Torah -- the real "food". And it means that Olam Habah is available to whoever wants it.


<<also, we always say that G-d does only good, & that He is a baal rachamim..how do i explain that 2 friends who seriously went & cont. 2 go thru hell. they basically grew up being the parents in the house, having problems w/ their parents, having a sick child in the family, ...>>

Please see the "suffering" forum in the Hashkafa section of the site. And please buy and read the Sefer Daas Tevunos of the Ramchal ("The Knowling Heart" in english by Feldheim) where the concept of sufffering is explained at length and very well.


<<the torah takes a misogynistic pt of view. that men r gr8 & women r belittled. women r n/t. i just dont know what 2 say ne more...moderator, ne suggestions!?!>>

Well its illogical that the torah could take a myogynistic view even if theoretically it wanted to. If G-d (the Torah) didnt like women He didnt have to create them in the first place!

And there is not a single place in the entire Torah where one can pick up any misogynistic vibes. All this is due to a misunderstanding of the Torah and the assimilation of false interpretations into ones own mindset. If you tell me where your friend got this idea I will gladly deal with it.

proud2bfrum Posted - 25 August 2003 0:00
<<also, it says in the last paragraph in bentching (i'm not sure if this goes under this forum but i'm gonna ask e/t at once) that we never see a single person hungry- etc. etc. ( vidorshey Hashem lo yachsiru..naar hayiti vigam zakanti vi lo ra'iti tzadik nezav..)but that's not true- we c it all the time..so how do we explain it then?>>

I was at a shiur about Tzaddik verah lo Rasha vetov lo and he kind of started with this example from bentching. It's all about perspective. There aren't tzaddikim in this world who's children are begging for bread, not because they aren't starving, but because it's really low on their priorities. It's like the story of Rav Zusha. A guy didn't understand how he could really serve HASHEM when so many bad things go on in his life and he is lacking so much so he went to his Rebbe. His Rebbe sent him to Rav Zusha. So he comes to Rav Zusha and he lives in a shack and he has ragged clothes and no furniture. He's living so meagerly because he is so poor. The man asks his question and Rav Zusha says, 'I don't know why your Rav sent you to me, I'm not lacking anything.'

satinsword13 Posted - 14 June 2007 19:07
Rabbi Gottlieb makes a good point_ when Hashem created man he said, "Its not good man should be alone." and the commentators say its becasue the angels thought he was god, so thats not good. so he creted woman to dispel that image.
so, for that to help, CAN she be less than man? NO!! because then he would still be god! the point was to make someone else equal!

~~Our task in life is not to be holy-we already are. our job is to be real to that holiness.~

MODERATOR Posted - 14 June 2007 21:10
Rabbi Gottleib's proof doesnt work.

It could be the reaosn the angels thought Adam was G-d is because whereas all the animals had mates, Adam had none, which means he doesnt need a mate, and that would mean that he is not human. Hashem fixed that, but it doesnt mean his mate has to be his equal.

There could also be tons of reasons that G-d's creating Chava dispelled the idea that Adam is G-d, without having to create anybody equal.

In fact, you could interpret Hashem's action here in the opposite direction:
Could be the reason the angels thought Adam was G-d is because he has Tzelem Elokim, so Hashem created Chava, to show that even a woman could be Tzelem Elokim, so surely it does not prove Adam is G-d.

That having been said, as I mentioned, it makes no sense that Hashem has anythgin against women - see my post above. It's logically absurd. However, citing proofs that dont work doesnt help matters.

MODERATOR Posted - 15 June 2007 19:19
Or --- it could be the fact that Hashem created Chava as an Ezer Knegdo proves he's not Hashem - why would G-d need an Ezer? But it doesnt have to mean Chava was an equal.

trying2shteig Posted - 28 August 2008 14:51
moderator- all your proofs make sense and work on logic, but that's pretty much where they fall apart. who says every effect has to have a cause? maybe the world did just poof into existence? how do you know that your logic always works and pertains to everything?
just a sidenote i'm a frum jew i believe in Hashem i'm just trying to make a point
MODERATOR Posted - 28 August 2008 15:02
Actually, it works on facts and sense. Just like proofs to anything. We discussed why effects need causes. It's also physically impossible for something physical to not have a cause. and logically, it makes sense. can you imagine a causeless effect? It makes no sense.
trying2shteig Posted - 01 September 2008 17:27
you're kind of missing my point- that's the whole problem with your statement. you're saying "according to logic and common sense an Infinite Being is the cause of the world" which i agree wtih. but what i'm saying is that maybe not- maybe not every cause has an effect. maybe there are unkown factors that play into whether or not something "happens". it's logical, but you can never say it's 100 percent.
which is why i believe in Hashem- i think logically. it's illogical to believe otehrwise, but who said everything has to work on logic? i'm just making a point that there is no irrefutable proof to G-d's existance.
MODERATOR Posted - 01 September 2008 19:17
Would you tell people not to rely on the ground becuase gavity and the solidity of the ground aren't 100%? that maybe there's something unknown about it? Maybe that unknown factor means you shouldn't eat becuase it might turn into acid, or that your goldfish will come at you with a knife. How can you know putting one foot in front of the other will move you foward? That your lungs breathe air? It's craziness to worry about something that doesn't even make sense. You don't doubt these things to keep you through life, why doubt them with regards to your neshama?
taon Posted - 04 September 2008 17:58
How can there possibly be an unknown factor? How does a causeless effect in the physical world as we know it make sense?

taon

questions? go here:

www.frumteens.com/forum.php?forum_id=65

MODERATOR Posted - 04 September 2008 21:15
tryng,

Yes, it is 100%. Its a law of physics - called "causation" - and its simple logic. It cannot have exceptions.

You see, when you say "there are other factors" that make things happen besides a cause, then those things are themselves the cause(s) and the rule is not broken. It cant be broken.

trying2shteig Posted - 09 September 2008 20:55
well there's no point in really worrying every second whether or not your foot will take you forward or that the food won't turn into acid- if you do you'd be living a very stressful life. i also think it's impossible because there are so many different things going on that could go wrong but don't that we don't even realize.
so really, your kal vachomer isn't really a proof against me- you actually proved my point. just because something is logical and usually happens one way doesn't mean that it's impossible for it to be otherwise. who knows- the food could turn into acid and kill somebody, C'v! does it usally happen? not really. but could? who knows.... whether or not I have to worry about it is a totally different subject.
just because it's logical that Hashem exists- which I believe He does- doesn't mean that it's true. my point is there is no 100 percent proof
trying2shteig Posted - 09 September 2008 20:55
i guesss i didn't express myself properly beforehand- the fact that there may be otehr factors isn't what I"m saying- i'm saying that maybe something ILLOGICAL happened and that's what brought the world into existence. why do you think/ how do you know everything always operates on your logic. yes, in a perfectly logical world, G-d exists- but maybe the world isn't perfectly logical. meaning the universe. maybe not every cause has an effect- that's what i'm trying to get across. could be something totally irrational happened and then the rules of cause and effect came into play.
taon Posted - 12 September 2008 0:38
...no. it cant impossible. it just does not make any sense. leess sense than a hole in air, a five sided triangle, space ending and not ending, all those mayb e cna be explained, but this? no. it just doesnt work.
and even if it theoretically did, anyone could easily safely say that every effect needs a cause in this world without fear of being wrong. even if the rule was less than 100%, it would be close enough to be a rule.

taon

questions? go here:

www.frumteens.com/forum.php?forum_id=65

taon Posted - 12 September 2008 0:38
also, we have no reason to even think the world works not completely logically. theres no precendent, and no reason for it.

taon

questions? go here:

www.frumteens.com/forum.php?forum_id=65

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