Anything about JUDAISM
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abcdefghijklmnop Posted - 03 January 2008 18:37
I used to think that kosher slaughter was painless and quick. But i just watched a disgusting video where they basically torture the animals. they cut open their throat and other parts of their body, put them in torture machines and then let them stay conscious while they suffer the pain of this horrible death. the slaughterers are so heartless that they even throw blood unto the dying and moaning animal's face!!! How can someone possible defend this cruelty???
Matisyohu28 Posted - 03 January 2008 22:18
Videos online of this nature are usually fraudulent, and distributed and produced by anti-semites. I know of at least one site which is owned by a formerly frum jew which has such videos. I also know of middle-eastern media which puts out equally realistic videos of jews drinking blood and using said blood for baking matzos. if you open a shulchan aruch, and you read the laws of kashrus, these videos fall apart at the seems. you know about chalada? thats the halacha that says that the knife cannot be covered on both sides(top of blade and bottom of blade) by the flesh the knife slices - this is not present in the video I saw which was supposedly made in a kosher slaughterhouse. Also, the knife itself wasn't a shechite knife - it had a pointed tip. what proof do you have that the video was taken in a kosher slaughterhouse? none. what reason do you have to believe it was a falsified video? all the reason in the world.

Mussar teaches you how to live. But learning bava kama is living! - Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L

green Posted - 03 January 2008 23:25
The video sounds like a fake.
But by the way, we don't shecht cuz it's painless. If that was the point, we'd put the animal to sleep first, no? We shecht according to the halacha, and we try to minimze pain for the animal cuz of tzaar baalei chaim-and we are rachmanim. But we shecht cuz that's how an animal is kosher.
taon Posted - 03 January 2008 23:25
That's not kosher shechting aty all. don't believe all you hear. Did you recieve this in an email from some vegetarinism? becuase I know someone who got a similar video (not about kosher schita) emailed to him from a site like that, and it was a definite fake made only for shock purposes. Kosher shechting does not work the way you described the video. SO even if it is real, it's not kosher shechita. It doesn't asound like it can even pass at a glance for a kosher slaughterhouse. I agree with Matisyahu, it's definitely a fake.
abcdefghijklmnop Posted - 03 January 2008 23:25
ok first of all not everything is antisemetic. if someone fires u, hes not antisemetic. i just wanted to clear that up

second, you cant prove that its NOT a glatt kosher slaughter house.

third, this website didnt only have knosher slaughterhouses. this websites goal is to give reasons to be a vegetarian. it had many videos of kosher slaughterhouses, non kosher slaughterhouses, and a bunch of facts and other things. so clearly this is NOT antisemetic. its just trying to get people to stop murdering animals so cruely. THATS IT.

4th, u didnt proove that this video was against the halacha. there was no wierd shaped knives or two sharp edges or whatever. Now prove that THIS is against the halacha.

Now back to my question, how can kosher slaughter be so cruel if its defended to be so pure and harmless??????

panimyafos Posted - 04 January 2008 2:48
Whoah ABC - first, I see your post went up at the same time as Green's and Taon's, so read those. And we're not attacking you, ok sweetie? Also - c'I just ask where being fired comes into the picture??

The thing is, just your point about the website being about "why people should become vegetarian" says A LOT. This is one of those instances when everyone is right; the fact that it's that type of website means that it was not only aimed at Yidden.

However - and I KNOW it's hard to accept - but there IS an inyan (idea - here, fact of life) of "Eisav Soneh Es Yaakov." (the other nations of the world will always hate us NO MATTER WHAT; no matter if they show it, hide it, flaunt it...) It's HARD to take that; I know many non-Jewish people (I won't go into detail here), and, especially with an American mentality, it's nearly impossible to wrap your mind around that idea. But just keep in mind, ok?

As it is, I happen to agree with Mattisyahu. Many of these places, while crying out to everyone to protect the animals - and don't get me wrong; I grew up with a dog and absolutely LOVE animals (ask anyone who knows me) - will simultaneously torture some just to get their point across. You know what it sometimes reminds me of? If you've read Harry Potter, you know Grindelwald's slogan "for the greater good..." 90% of these videos are shams.

I don’t know enough about it to answer your specific questions, but I am 100% certain that nothing done in our slaughterhouses is “cruel.” Get someone who will know (and is a reliable source) to explain it to you. If you can stomach it, go to one yourself if you can. If you need to know, then search, ok?

And by the way – welcome back! I’ve missed you!

taon Posted - 04 January 2008 13:44
if the video is originallly from where i strongly suspect it's from, due to your descriptions and my own and my friends experiences, it's almost certainly not real, or at least not a shochet anyone would use. I think there are videos of real shectings, i dont know, you can try to find one in a school or Jewish book store. I'm not emntioning wher eI think it originatd becuase it wouldnt be right to link to and talk about it here. though i do know many of them are against "religious Rabbis" de to a whole big thing, whatever. don't worry, you can eat chulent on Shabbos in peace. Presuming you eat chulent, and that chulent contains meat. And yeah i'll stop rambling.
YB Posted - 04 January 2008 13:44
I think that if we had the proper attitude on this matter, things would be a bit clearer. Since CHAZAL say that the animal feels no pain, we must assume it doesn't.... BTW, what's the scoop w' KAJ?
green Posted - 04 January 2008 13:44
There's nothing intrinsic to shechita that is "cruel"..and if something like that is being done, it's against the halachos of tzar baalei chaim. This website said straight out that they have an they're gonna have to work on the frum jews, also. They have to also make shechita look like it's terrible to get to the people who are wavering btwn kosher and nonkosher-that's supposed to be the push.
abcdefghijklmnop Posted - 05 January 2008 23:46
ok what u guys are basically saying is that the website is antisemeitc and it isnt a kosher slaughterhouse.

first about the antisemeitc thing: IT ISNT ANTISEMETIC. i dont understand y so many jews think that just about everything is antisemetic. this isnt a website ONLY talking about jewish things. there are litterally hundreds of things on that website and only ONE of them is a jewish slaughterhouse video. there are a BUNCH of videos and only ONE is jewish so OBVIOUSLY this is NOT antisemetic.

second- for the fake thing - if it isnt antisemetic, which i just have prooved it is not, then why would they pretend its a glatt kosher slaughterhouse? That video i saw was disgusting. y would halacha say to kill an animal so cruely? isnt the whole point to do it quick so its practically painless???

if it IS a fake, which i REALLY REALLY doubt it is, then id let it go. but i really dont think that it is.

abcdefghijklmnop Posted - 05 January 2008 23:46
o and its great to see u too panimyafos
green Posted - 05 January 2008 23:46
Where do chazal say that the animal feels no pain?
taon Posted - 06 January 2008 2:20
Shechita is not cruel. Chas Vesholom. I know enough about shechita (I had a teacher who was a shochet)to be able to safely say what you described is not kosher shechita. either 1 they only thought that was kosher shechita but it wasnt or 2 they lied. They've done it before, as your description fit my previous description of what thought it was perfectly. they can lie again. or twist around facts or images or whatever. They would attack kosher shectia becuase that's a large part of the market, not just Jews, and becuase it's known to be more merciful, and stirs up controversy. happened before, happens again. If you dont trust me, at least trust us above this one video and try to find out more from a reliable source, like a shochet, or someone who's seen them, or a video of them, or watch them, or read a sefer about it as far as permitted.
abcdefghijklmnop Posted - 06 January 2008 2:20
exactly. how can u defend something so cruel?
green Posted - 06 January 2008 15:46
What exactly?
abcdefghijklmnop Posted - 06 January 2008 15:46
thanks taon
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