Anything about JUDAISM
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Matisyohu28 Posted - 02 December 2007 19:16
Lately whenever I walk into the room where the laptop is, my dad puts the screen down, and when I walk away he opens it up again. This has been going on for weeks, so I finally went on his screename on the computer, and found a huge collection of pornography r"l, so I deleted it..but now there's another problem. On his browser history, it shows that he's been going on personal's websites of the "adult" pursuasion. Apparently he was even chatting with one of the women on that site, and he's been watching videos on the same site. I downloaded a parental blocker with the intention of blocking that site, but it ended up blocking things that I need to use, plus he would know I set it up and he would get mad at me - how do I stop him from potentially ruining his marriage chas veshalom, not to mention the damage being done to his neshoma?

Mussar teaches you how to live. But learning bava kama is living! - Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L

green Posted - 02 December 2007 22:00
Matisyahu,
First- I'm completely unqualified to answer you. Bearing that in mind-there are some things that I can say. First of all- it would be much better if you could talk directly to someone knowledgeable, both in torah and in dealing with complicated family situations. And.....I don't think that it's in your or your father's best interest for you to try to help him in this kind of way. He needs to be responsible for his own actions, and I don't think it's necessarily your place to try to "discipline" him. If he's going to look for guidance, he needs to be the one doing that. I'm not sure that something like blocking his computer access is constructive.
taon Posted - 02 December 2007 22:00
It's a delicate situation..the main problem, as i see it, is getting information about stopping to your father without causing more problems. Does he show regret? Does he suspect you know? Are you able to put up a different kind of blocker, one you can control more or something (see the dangers of internet forum) and just say it's for everyone or something?
I tried searching for related subjects, aside from the obvious topics like how to reprove a parent and shemiras enayim.
hope these help:

Link

Link

Link

Link

taon

questions? go here:

http://www.frumteens.com/forum.php?forum_id=65

asher Posted - 03 December 2007 3:04
maybe try talking to your father tell him you know and ask him why hes doing it or maybe write him a letter that would be easier. does he have a rabbi or relative whom he respects and is close to maybe ask them to talk to him.
Matisyohu28 Posted - 04 December 2007 14:58
Thanks for all the replies. Green, I know I can't discipline my father, but it is at times hard to think of him as such, he raised me with kefirah, he talks about treif all the time, his parnosa is largely due to lashon hara, he does not respect my mom who is becoming more observant, and to top it all off, he wishes he had never sent me to yeshiva cv's. It is very, very difficult to live with, let alone honor a person like that. I show him respect, but there are times that I just snap and run away screaming something he wont understand, like "apikores" or the like, not to him directly, just out loud, out of sheer disgust. I'm not saying what i do is right - kivud av is min hatorah, and if eisav can do it I'm sure i can, but I am just saying how much of a nisayon it is for me to do; again, what I am doing is wrong when I get mad at my father and speak to him disrespectfully. I'm not justifying it. However if I can do something to stop him from doing an aveirah - why not do it? I'm not trying to argue with you, but from my point of view it may be eaiser for me to at least be able to talk to my father without thinking to myself about all the terrible things he does.
Taon - I wish my father was on the level to uderstand shemiras einayim and not mock it or dismiss it as christian thinking r"l. I'm lookin for a different, less obvious kind of blocer(i.e., one which wont say "this site is adult orietned etc.., but rather will give an error message that makes the user think the site is down or something like that).
Asher - my father knows that if I talk to him about it, I will be coming from a torah perspective, one that he unfortunately does not respect at all. He values 21st century thinking and ideas and does not understand basic morality - this is why talking to him directly will only make him do it more, as would be the case with whatever rav he speaks with. So I dont know who i can get him to speak to..and I've been worried sick that maybe my mom will find out and cv's leave my dad. Basically I'm really confused, and while a blocker will stop him from doing it, the motivation is still there - why? i don't know, but my mother started observing taharas mishpacha a little, ...from my dad's perspective i think i have my answer, but still, i dont know what to do. Thanks for your answers...I really, really appreciate your help, I know I've been posting a lot about these problems I have. the trouble is I cant talk about it without being anonymous - with all of my friends I have to assume the role of rebbe, since they all desperately need one(let alone the fact that none of them are near being able to give advice about the problems), and to my own rebbe I don't feel comfrotable talking about these things with him, since i've known him since I started going to yeshiva, so I apologize if I'm flooding the board with my life story

Mussar teaches you how to live. But learning bava kama is living! - Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L

asher Posted - 05 December 2007 22:41
WOW!! i truly admire you, how do you cope with all this going on,
well i dont know exactly why your father is against yidishkeit and how much against it he is, so i dont know what you should do, was he raised yiddish?
ok i guess most definite thing you can do is pray for him to do teshuvah.
and about the arguments you have with him i personaly think that if you respect him, even if you disagree with him just tell him you love him so much and that is exactly why you disagree with him because you know whats right and good for him, its hard, i think eventualy he will start respecting you and yidishkeit.
may you have the strenghth to keep growing.
depressedAngel Posted - 06 December 2007 19:36
mattisyahu- im sorry for the sitauation that your in- its sounds incredibly difficult and your doing an amazing job dealing with it. i just wanted to point out one thing to you that may help you view your father in a different light- your father is not an apikores- a person has to have a vast amount of Torah knoledge to be an apikores and im sure that your father doesnt fit into that category. He never had a Jewish education so while his attitude may be very hard to deal with it is mostly out of ignorance not anything else. i hope his helped. keep up all te great things your doing!
green Posted - 06 December 2007 23:27
Matisyohu,
I didn't mean cuz of kibbud av. I just don't know if it's something that you can help him with, for your own sake. Putting the onus on yourself to help him might not be good for you-I really think you should ask for eitzah before you go in that direction.
Matisyohu28 Posted - 06 December 2007 23:27
da - i wish my father was only ignorant, he went to hebrew school, and he knows a lot, more than most non-frum people, but he doesn't believe in torah at all, and indeed he mocks halachos that he has learned

Mussar teaches you how to live. But learning bava kama is living! - Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L

Answers Posted - 09 December 2007 5:55
I could be alittle of base here, but you seem to be trying to be your friends rebbe and your fathers rebbe. I think you should just be a good son and a good friend. It is really hard not to be judgemental, but that is a really important tenant in judaism. It would not be appropriate to call your father a apikoris even if he doesnt know what it means. How is he supposed to embrace orthodox judaism if all he sees is his orthodox son yelling at him and thouching his personal things. I am not saying that what he is doing his right but as a high school aged son I am not sure that what you are doing is appropriate. Of course there ar private numbers you can call or your you can email the moderator to discuss the situation.
depressedAngel Posted - 09 December 2007 5:55
matt- even ifhe went to hebrew school- he neevr really learned to have a real appreciation for Torah. im not saying that he couldnt if he wouldnt want to - just saying that he really wasnt taught any better and its not out of spite
Torah=MayimChayim Posted - 10 December 2007 0:57
I happen to disagree with a number of posts written here.

You are the son. Period. You do NOT have to be a PARENT to your father. What your father is doing is very, very wrong, I'm sorry to say it but it's true. But it's not your place, nor your responsibility, to "cure him" so to speak.

Want to know what the best kibud av is? When you get your father the help he needs. He doesn't need a rabbi--he needs a psychologist. Pornography is not something a rabbi can solve for your father, especially when your father is not ready to hear Torah thoughts on the matter.

By the way, no one today can be classified as an apikores--at most, he's a "tinok shenishba". So you don't have to worry about that, and it shouldn't worry you at all.

I do agree with Green. You need to talk to someone about this. I don't know about the relationship between you and your rebbe, but it might help to talk to him. If he's a good rebbe, then he won't look at you any differently than when you came to him before this problem. If he's a good rebbe, then he'll help you get the right help.

In the meantime, you need to talk to a psychologist, or a helpline. There are numbers listed in the Deep Trouble section.

I admire your strength, Mattisyohu. But you can't handle the world alone on your shoulders. The best way to be a good son here is to get the help you and your father need.

Hatzlacha.

Matisyohu28 Posted - 10 December 2007 0:57
Green, i think you have a point. it's very difficult for me to just not do anything though, since no one else is in a position to help him, and he does not see anything wrong with such materials(he's said this before when discussing how positive sexual "expression" is), so if I dont stop it, i fear no one else will.
answers - baruch Hashem you are not in my position, and if chas veshalom you were, you may think a little differently; i was raised with, and I am living with kefirah, and I am also surrounded by it in school. to my dad, a good son is one who is more concerned with grades than torah study, has a girlfriend, dresses "normally", and so on. that is not a good son, but he thinks it is. and since when does being a good friend include sitting idly by when they do such terrible things? Also, he typically yells at me, and when you combine all those things together, it is not easy to just sit there and listen to it all.

Mussar teaches you how to live. But learning bava kama is living! - Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L

Matisyohu28 Posted - 10 December 2007 0:57
da, if it were just ignorance, that would be one thing. even if he doesnt appreciate torah, he still has no right to mock it the way he does, not to mention the fact that he loves to twist it and make it out to be this goyishe, secularized way of living.

Mussar teaches you how to live. But learning bava kama is living! - Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L

Torah=MayimChayim Posted - 10 December 2007 20:46
Mattisyohu? How you doing?
Matisyohu28 Posted - 11 December 2007 15:39
t=mc, things have improved a little since my first post. on shabbos i started talking about chanukah to my parents, and it got to a discussion about basic mesorah philosophy. my father appreciated what i said, and it went very well. but then yesterday i went to a mikveh to toivel some keilim, and he said that he would not use it because he thought it was dirty, and that it was ridiculous to obsess over the "minutiae" as he put it, involved in halacha.

About the apikores thing, i dont know if he is or not, but it doesnt change his constant mocking and disrespect for torah, which he knows are hurtful. Also, he wouldnt go to a psychologist, he has had bad experiences with them before, including the fact that he once signed himself into a mental ward for depression and hated being there.. plus in order for me to get him to speak to one, my dad would have to know of my knowledge of the situation, which is terrifying just to think about. i know i cant cure him - but whenever someone does something like this around me, especially my own father, i feel like an accessory when i sit by and do nothing, though i know that is not true in this case. i agree with you though..i know it's not my place to act directly, but i also dont want it to continue.
anyway, thank you for the chizuk, i really appreciate your kind words.

Mussar teaches you how to live. But learning bava kama is living! - Rav Avigdor Miller ZT'L

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