Anything about JUDAISM
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philo613 Posted - 15 June 2007 12:45
Is it better to have Emunah Pshuta and simply not investigate these Hashkafic questions? I mean, there are thousands of discussions about specifcs both in Hashkafa and other questions. Besides, if one gets to far into these discussions, one risks arriving at a wrong conclusion, and Chas Veshalom, losing their share in Olam habah, depending on how wrong their views are. In addition to “classical” Hashkafa, is it better read books such as “Beyond a Reasonable Doubt” and Rabbi Mechanics work, or simple accept the Torah without proof? I know that in other areas of Torah, such as Halacha, every individual is supposed to do their best to understand everything, but is that also so for Hashkafa also? Can one simply say “I accept the Hashkafa of Judaism, without properly understating the complex discussions of all the previous generations?

write Posted - 15 June 2007 14:35
i'd ask is emunah peshuta possible today w/o learning first?

i'd suggest you pick a rebbi and a yeahiva if your a boy now

i forgot the names in this story and the exact details but this is the basics: famine and students and rebbi davening and not ending but then farmer came and davened and it ended. Students ank why. Rebbi said bc. he really believes in Hashem more then we do he is emunah peshuta we can't bc. we learn in yeahiva, we've learnt, we've been exposed to torah and world now have to find it. but he doesn't know anything other than Hashem will provide and understands and really belives.

Can you have that type today living in this society? most can't. Those talmidim could not but only the farmer could. Only a great rav could. So after understanding little things can you say I have a pashut emunah.

Rosh yeshiva would evey day find money on his way to beit midrash andwould live off off this. until his wife ?ed it. then he said he needed a salary bc. not able to any more. also find this idea with calev and his wife in the navi.

not so simple to throw the term around any more.

its do you have it.

emunah IS YOUR EXISTANCE both spiritual and physical you can't just say is it better to have one or the other. if you don't have it now then go learn to increase your belief. (which happens when you become free of your taavah and your own person so you really can become a servant to Hashem) don't wait.

(This is just what i think ask R' Mod. He'd know 4 sure. always ask a rav)

green Posted - 15 June 2007 16:22
Emunah pshuta doesn't mean being lazy. We can't just say "I have no will to think" and write it off as emunah...
taon Posted - 15 June 2007 17:57
it was discussed here, i think.


simple plain emunah is great, but it's hard to get and harder to keep. especially in this generation. of course, emunah is needed. but it needs to be backed up by hishtaldus.



MODERATOR Posted - 15 June 2007 19:17
I would rephrase that:

Hishtadlus is needed, but it needs to be backed up by Eminah. ;-)

write Posted - 17 June 2007 2:42
R. Mod, did I get it right?
MODERATOR Posted - 18 June 2007 13:15
Well, Emunah Leshutah is ingrained by default in every Jew. This is the "magic" segulah of "ki becha yaaminu leolam."

However, that's just the default - a human can ruin his natural belief by allowing undesirable influences to put dounbs in his mind. This includes reading, hearing, or seeing all those thigns that the Torah prohibits us to read hear or see as per the prohibitions of Lo sasuru acharei levavchem, al tifnu el haelilim, and harchek mishachen rah. There are other ways to damage the delicate and sublime natural Emunah of a Jew as well. Society impacts on us in many ways, unfortunately.

Such a person needs answers, and for such a person, Emunah Peshutah is no longer an option. Would that is were, but alas it is not. For such a person, all the proofs are life savers.

For someone who is still on the level
where his sublime and delicate default Emunah has not been damaged, there is a great disagreement in the seforim regarding what the best path for him is in regard to proofs to the Torah.

However, the above disagreement is referring to complex philosophical proofs. There are other, simple, 1+1=2 demonstrations of G-d's existence and other Torah principles that, in the words of the Ran, "anyone who is not an idiot" agrees are true. Such demonstrations of logic are not philosophical proofs but rather simple elementary facts (an example is the First Cause Principle - see the "G-d" section for details). These are not the complex philosophical proofs that some seforim say to stay away from.

isb Posted - 03 December 2009 15:03
first of all, how do you know emunah pshuta is ingrained in every jew? over 90 percent vote in american elections the same way their parents do (democrat or republican). ppl just tend to believe what they are taught to believe. what makes that a magical segulah?

also, there are ppl who stop believing not because they read something, etc. its just hard to believe in something which cant be empirically proven. just as many "proofs" as there are that Torah is true, there are "proofs" that it is not... personally i dont find so called proofs in either direction terribly convincing.

faith cant be proven and anyone who says it can "beyond a reasonable doubt," is lying.

MODERATOR Posted - 03 December 2009 15:19
First, your statistics are not correct, There aren't even that many who vote. But what does belief have to do with that? Does it mean everyone who votes republican or democrat believes in everything that party does? Or they just can't be bothered to decide?

Nobody stops believing for no reason. There is always a cause. And while ignorance is a common cause, a lack of proof is not. Tell me, what hole can you yourself find in something that has been attacked or analyzed by every side of the argument (even, in a respectful way, Torah Jews, for that is how we learn, by asking) for thousands of years without making a dent?

jewishgirl1 Posted - 28 December 2009 1:33
I think it's much better to have emunah peshuta. It makes sense that a person will have more sechar if he has emunah l'sheim shamayim, than because he heard a great proof that completely proves everything. (Of course we aren't supposed to go through life doing things primalily to get sechar.) Acceptance, and using your emotional/instinctive/subconsious side, the side of the neshama, is much more powerful than using the logical side, the side of the guf.
taon Posted - 04 January 2010 23:25
The commentators say that it's not enough to just believe without knowing what you belive. That isn't knowing, and for emunah you must know. As a fact. It was explained elsewhere that emunah peshuta means to know from simple logic and from that we have a mesora, as opposed to bigger proofs.

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