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|souldier||Posted - 23 March 2007 18:33
i'm an apikores.
no. don't worry. i believe in god, i believe the torah is true, and i eat only kosher, put on tefillin each day, keep shabbos, and i'm even ultra-orthedox and wear a black hat and pios.
but that's not what yiddishkite is about.
yiddishkite as i've learnd the hard way from my family, is all about being and thinking different, it's about hating the goy, having 'my' rabbe, growing a beard, not seeing videos, shukeling by the tish, and basically being like everyone else, it's a lifestyle.
and that's why i am an apikores(heretic).
i didn't say i'm doing whatever i want and to hell with everybody (which is very popualer in my yeshiva),didn't say you're alowed to steal (which sometimes dosent seem like a very importent avera),did'nt speak loshen hora (which is sometimes a plus here!),and no, i didnt even speak agianst chassidus (which by the way nobody on my planet can explain for the life of me what it means),but what i did do is, i exprassed my views to my mother.
i said that i think that just like we expect the goyim to respect us and sometimes tolerate us, we have to tolerate and respect them. if he is labled an antisemite and racist if he speaks against us, why not the same way around?
i said that i think the same way we hate the muslim extremists and think that a suicide bomber is beyond stupid,that in order for the world to live in peace and harmony everybody has to give in a little bit,be moderate,understand that there are different opinions, so we have to be moderate,more exepting,let people live and do what 'they' think is right,let the world move forward and live & injoy 'our' times.
i said i believed in god not because my father said so (which he didnt), but because i've prooved it to myself thru those shmutziga science book's and goyisha library book's that my mother claims has gotten me this virus called ''intellectuall''(anybody ever heard of this big avira 'thinking'? well it's what made all those sects in jewish history like 'shabsa tzvi' and the 'misyavnim' for apikorsim, says my grandmother with a faraway look in her eyes)
i said i believe in the torah cause i 'thought' about it and it seems right, true and just.
i said the torah has nothing to hide and if 'thinking' is what will point me in anothr direction, then mabye it isnt so true.(who are you to think ? answers my grandfather shaking a finger,'farloze dich oifen rambam,he was a lot smarter then you')
and thats why i i'm an opikores. not just a stupid athiest or whatever, i belive in god ,
|aidelmaidel||Posted - 23 March 2007 21:55
i really respect you for being able to stand strong against what some people are telling you and to still believe in yourself. and also for having respect for people because they are people whether they are jewish or not you do need a rabbi, not because you are a so called heretic but so he clears up for you what yiddishkeit is all about. keep on thinking. may you keep on growing in avodas hashem
|jess||Posted - 25 March 2007 0:28
really, souldier, are you? because i think that by applying that term you are dragging a whole lot of us down there with you.
judaism, unlike other religions, does not discourage thoughts, questions - even doubts; because these are healthy things that push us further in our journey towards Hashem - as you should see from this site.
to hate people who are different from us is to hopelessly limit them, because even if what they are doing is wrong, you are saying "I don't think this person will ever be any different."
i too cherish the "science books" etc. which establish the validity of torah. there would be no baal teshuvah movement if it was all about letting the rambam do the thinking, as your grandfather might say.
and when my family and friends who are in no way frum ask me if i still love them for exactly who they are, i can look them straight in the face and say yes. of course we would love these people to become more religious. but can i respect their journey, hoping Hashem will steer them on the right path? of course.
you are not an apikorus. you are merely a thinker. being frum does not ask of you to surrender your mind and shukel in your conformity. it asks you to be you.
|613ss||Posted - 25 March 2007 0:28
i am in awe over what you said, and i completely agree with you. you are a very rare and special a privelage to have among am yisroel. you seem like the person who does not follow halocha blindly, yes? i must say that to me, you are the deffinition of a ben torah. keep up your koyach, and i wish you the best mazel. we need more yidden like you.
|taon||Posted - 25 March 2007 2:53
Whataminute...since when has thinking and asking been a bad thing? since when does thata mean to give up? without it, a lot of people wouldnt be here!
|Elchonon||Posted - 25 March 2007 2:55
Souldier-First of all, I like thinking people. So I immedially liked you. You seem to have a knack for truth- You are right in many things that stated. Thinking is a ma'alah, not a chisaron. There are few people that I am able to have an intellectual conversation with, so I very much enjoy intellectual people. It is difficult to answer all your questions here, for when broken up there are actually many of them. Some are deep and may need longer answers. I so wish that we could talk in person...but this will have to do for now So-
I agree that the Torah has nothing to hide. However, this is why we don't neccesarily accept the views of others. Since the Torah is from G-d, everything in it is true- and everything true is in it. So others may be right, or they may be wrong. But in any case, why go to them and try to figure it out when we have a 100% accurate guidebook? Should we hate them? Absolutely not. Should we live peacfully and acknowledge their different lifestyle? Of course. I don't know of one reason that we should not! Peace is a good thing everywhere ( b'derech kal).
Should we follow them? Only if the Torah advises it.(Which it does not. I come from a Modern Orthodoxmizrachi family, and belive me Modern Orthodoxy, with all its- at best moderatly good- intentions is a complete disaster.I can provide more reasoning, details and stories than you can imagine as proof.) Reading science books to see Hashems fascinating world is not an Aveirah either. The Ramabam writes that one way to come to Ahavas Hashem is by enjoying His natural wonders in Olam Hazeh. Please write back.-Elchonon
p.s. You are NOT in the eyes of Halacha an Apikores!!!!!!!!!yeesh...
|Bas-Levi||Posted - 25 March 2007 5:14
Wowwww...I like that souldier...keep thinking!! =)
|wannabe||Posted - 29 March 2007 21:08
souldier, first of all, that post was really well-written. It's clear that you're a very smart person- not just someone with a good memory who can spit back facts, not that kind of smart, but a really smart person, someone who can figure things out and thinks for themself.
Second of all: this is gonna be tough to hear. i happen to be in one of my preachy moods today, other days you'll get me in other moods. but heres what i have to say today: you can't control other people. you can't control their reactions to you, and you can't control the way they think (or don't, in your opinion). you know this. i know you know this b/c you're an intelligent, thinking person. you also know that you are far from being an apikorus. you're a good, frum jew. and you're someone with a brain who can really bring a great deal to klal yisroel. so focus on that, and forget about what they're saying.
after all...you know they're wrong. so how much does it really matter if THEY don't?
|sprinkles||Posted - 30 March 2007 1:22
souldier-what u r is a good jew
ur a thinking jew whos sees outside the box-isnt that what uts all about?
u better not think ur any lower than those people in ur life who put you down-those people make the world sad and dark
i admire your strength of character for seeing truth and asking questions-keep it up
|Tortured_Soul||Posted - 30 March 2007 1:22
Souldier: Based on your post, I can appreciate and even sympathize with both how you feel as well as how your family feels. It sounds like you both have valid points. There is a lot I could say but for now, I will just plead with you to hang in there! Please don’t allow whatever bad experiences and examples you have seen around you cause you to stray from Yiddishkeit.
It is essential that you connect with sincere, ehrliche people who you are comfortable with. It is of the utmost importance to have some moreh derech and manhig. It doesn’t have to be someone who holds any official position or title, just someone who is an ehrliche talmid chochom who possesses the wisdom, sensitivity and experience necessary to relate to and guide you. “Aseih l’cha rav”. If you really cannot find such a person within your own yeshiva or community (though don’t be too quick to decide that before really trying) then you need to look further. If you are sincere and determined, you should eventually find someone.
I just wish there was a way I could put you in touch with some people I know who I think would be able to relate to you so well!
Have you spent some time looking through this site? You might appreciate many of the posts.
Now to respond to something in your post. You talk about tolerance, acceptance and respect. There is a big difference _between_ as well as _within_ these. We are obligated to have a certain level of respect for all people in the world. This does not mean that we accept or even respect– in a true sense– their false and wicked beliefs and practices. In golus we must tolerate and in certain ways even respect these – we must never insult goyim or speak against their religion to them or publically– but we must never actually be ‘machshiv’ any beliefs or actions that are against Torah.
Regarding the story you cited with your cousin, it was certainly wrong for him to make fun of that ‘Mizrachi’ woman’s tichel (in fact, he shouldn’t have even been looking at her in the first place) but we must realize that both the ideology as well as many aspects of the lifestyle of those who consider themselves “Religious-Zionist” are against daas Torah. We should be m’lameid z’chus on individuals, realizing that is how they were brought-up and most probably do not know any better but we must never _accept_ or _respect_ these or any deviations from our mesorah. We should certainly treat the _people_ with respect and try to be m’kareiv them to the emes but we must not respect the unacceptable _hashkafas_, _shitos_ and _practices_.
|taon||Posted - 30 March 2007 1:45
Nu, souldier, you have questions, ask! (in the appropriate forums) or at least respond, and tell us how you're doing?
|musicgurl||Posted - 30 March 2007 2:34
there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions so ask away! Following blindly just means that you don't put any thought into it. When you ask questions it means that it means something to you and you want to know the answer. i don't know if that makes you an apikorus...
|YOU||Posted - 30 March 2007 4:35
Souldier, you are really confused. 1st of all, if ppl. in ur yeshiva use the phrase t'hell with e/o maybe u sould switch yeshivot. Second, stealing is a big deal - it's one of the Aseret Hadibrot. OK I being mean, I can't stand when ppl. over analyze me so why should I you. So, straight off the term your looking for to discribe yourself, well I'm not sure what it is but it aint' apikores, bec. as you said an apikores denies Torah you most certainly are not (yay!) But you are being nieve, you're catogorizing. No one but an idiot says all muslims are bad but some one who kills himself to kill others - belongs in hell (yah, I kow I'm not G-d but seriously you think he walks clean??). You are not being racist when you hate him he killed YOUR people!! (helo!) It is ok to think outside the box and like other ppl. (so long as they don't want to distroy the world).
You are not an apikores (sorry to ruin your termonology), but you are confused (and u sound kinda "teengage angry" but again overanalyzing). So my suggestion is that you go back the Book, yup the Torah (she baal peh and she bichtav) and learn see if they say we should hate random goyim. See if they say no questions. Your mother I might add is a child of post holocaust life she was brought up to believe and not question it was their mentality. No one wanted to think about the Holocaust let alone question it. It is our generation who are sadly to say, numb of the horros of the holocaust and world maybe bec. we are a few generations away or maybe bec. we live in an age were 30 Iraqies die every day, in any case it is us who question and it's hard for ppl. to hear it.
Lastly, to test weather you really want answers or just a place to vent find a Rabbi a good one and talk.
(and on the side I don't get the last bit, your cousin is really really like really immature ur not. But what was he saying by discing the mizrachi woman was she wrong??)
Hope I helped ya, YOU.
|Tortured_Soul||Posted - 01 April 2007 10:26
Hey! Look what I just came across:
'Moderator's Required Reading List' in
|taon||Posted - 01 April 2007 14:04
thanks for finding all these useful posts!
|smile4me||Posted - 01 April 2007 20:35
im not sure if u've looked back here, but in case u do, just wanna let u know- i wish i could be as good an apikores as u!
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